Chairman of the Investigation Committee to disperse the sit-in of the leadership in Sudan to Al Jazeera Net: We have reached the penultimate stage of the investigations, and this is delaying our work | Politics news

Khartoum- The head of the investigation committee into the sit-in dispersal in front of the General Command of the Sudanese army on June 3, 2019, Nabil Adeeb, revealed that the work of the committee was greatly affected after the resignation of Prime Minister Abdullah Hamdok.

Adeeb said – in an exclusive interview with Al Jazeera Net – that the absence of the government affected, in particular, the work of the Committee of Foreign Experts to examine material evidence; This is the penultimate stage of the end of the investigations, whose results will not be delivered unless there is a prime minister for the country.

The committee specializes in investigating what has become known as the “General Command sit-in massacre” when armed forces affiliated with the Military Council, with reinforcements from the Sudanese Rapid Support Forces, stormed the sit-in headquarters – which continued after the revolution that toppled the regime of Omar al-Bashir, demanding the handover of power to civilians – using heavy and light weapons and tear gas. , to disperse peaceful demonstrators, as a result of which more than 100 demonstrators were killed and hundreds wounded.

Adeeb indicated that the committee, based on all evidence, including testimonies and documents, heard more than 3,000 witnesses. The investigations included all military leaders at the time of the crime, including the head of the Sovereignty Council, Lieutenant-General Abdel Fattah al-Burhan, and his deputy, Muhammad Hamdan (Hemedti). He called on the existing authority to hand over 4 accused of war crimes in Darfur, including former President Omar al-Bashir, to the International Criminal Court immediately.

Contrary to the general public stance on the current crisis, Adeeb demanded a return to the constitutional document that governed the country before the military seized power on October 25.

He said that the return of Prime Minister Abdullah Hamdok is required to restore the constitutional path, “there is no way to a solution except by returning to the constitutional document and then making amendments to it.”

This is the text of the conversation:

• What is the fate of the work of the sit-down committee? Where did the investigation go?

We are still working, and now we have entered the stage of hiring foreign experts to examine the material evidence, and this stage we have reached since last May, and it depends a lot on the presence of a civilian government and the logistical support provided by this government, especially since it is the one who contracted with experts and also handles financial issues .

While it was working, the “25 October coup” occurred, and there was no longer a civilian government. We are a committee formed by the Prime Minister, and after his resignation, the work became complicated, and he needs daily contact with the committee to obtain government support.

• How does the committee work after the prime minister’s resignation? What is the effect of his absence?

Our contract with the Prime Minister is not personal, and the formation of the committee came in accordance with the constitutional document, and the decisions of the Prime Minister do not go with him, but remain binding on the state and its subjects.

Hence, the committee still exists, but the absence of the government affects us in obtaining logistical support from equipment, tools and the authority to give experts access to important places to complete their work, and this is the greatest impact of the absence of the government.

The committee has completed some work and others are under discussion, but the work is not at the first pace because the committee’s needs are linked to the presence of the government, on which the existence of many work depends.

• What is the fate of the evidence collected from videos and testimonies? Can it be lost in light of the changes?

It is kept in a safe place, and basically no one knows the results of the investigation or its details, even while the Prime Minister is present, and he did not ask for that, but he only asked us if we needed additional time and we inform him in general about the development of the investigation, but all these investigations are conducted in complete secrecy It is not available to anyone outside the committee.

Nabil Adeeb: The absence of the government affected the work of the investigation committee (Al-Jazeera)

• What is the witness protection system in light of the talk about targeting them? Do you think that some of them were targeted by the hand of murder in the recent events?

On the other hand, I say I do not know witnesses who were touched by the hands because I do not know the names of the witnesses, and I do not know if those who were killed were among the group of witnesses at all, but let us look at the story rationally because “what is going on in the media is irrational and is not without brazenness and is intended to disrupt Committee work.

Why would anyone be targeted? Is it just because he watched? We are talking about 3,000 witnesses, can they all be targeted? This is a process that is just too pitiful to think about. What I am sure of is that we do not have a list of witnesses that can be handed over to any party, but we have testimonies that are kept safe.

Al-Burhan (left) and Hemeti were among those interrogated in the circumstances of the dispersal of the sit-in of the General Command (Anatolia).

• Have you investigated with the military who were at the head of the security committee? Who are the most prominent?

I remind you of our business rule that part of protecting witnesses is not disclosing their names, especially after we published an announcement in which we asked everyone with information to come and give it.

Some people called and said we want guarantees to give this testimony, and to provide this, with a high degree of confidentiality, and we have provided phone numbers abroad to communicate and organize their interviews, especially with those who believe that their access to the committee or their contact with it poses a danger to them. Therefore, we delegated people to go to them at the place they specify, and their testimonies were documented.

I would not give any names from the military, in fact, they do not feel any danger. In any case, we investigated all the military leaders who were present at the time, including members of the military component of the Sovereignty Council before its dissolution, and after its re-formation, including Burhan, Hemeti and the rest. .

Part of the protests that followed the dispersal of the sit-in of the Army General Command on June 3, 2019 (Al-Jazeera)

• You have already said that 80% of the investigations are over. What was actually accomplished from the investigation?

Yes, the testimonial stage is completely over, and we have evidence and documents, and the documents are divided into written and documented audio and video, and there are also other physical evidence such as graves and corpses, and all of these need expert evaluation.

We succeeded in providing experts to examine this evidence, and I cannot name them, but they are from outside Sudan, and it was agreed with the Prime Minister to provide what we require from an examination of the evidence we obtained, and after the expert committee submits its report to us, we may need to hear some witnesses who have direct information Related to that, because the expert committee reports need to be heard and understood.

This is a criminal investigation committee and was not established under the Commissions of Inquiry Act of 1954, and we operate under the Criminal Procedure Law and the Attorney General’s Law. Hence, the investigation ends with specific accusations that are submitted to the Public Prosecutor to open cases against the accused.

At the same time, we are working on a political and civil investigation, the results of which will be submitted to the prime minister, who may decide to pay compensation to the people or publicize political responsibilities because his mandate includes that, but the mandate of the attorney general is related to the criminal investigation, so if we find actions that violate the criminal laws, we will formulate charges and submit them to the attorney general.

The sit-in in front of the General Command of the Army in Khartoum was demanding the handover of power to civilians (Al-Jazeera)

• In the absence of a prime minister after Hamdok’s resignation, is it possible for the committee to present its report to the public?

There are two aspects to the investigation; One of the results will go to the Attorney General to start criminal trials, and another aspect we will push to the Prime Minister and not to the Sudanese people.

And because the prime minister does not exist now, and this is an exceptional situation, the presence of a position in the constitution equal to the prime minister is what will determine for us where we will go with this report.

In addition, the investigation committee does not announce the results of its work, but rather submits them to the party that formed it, and it is the one who does that. The investigation committee is the least task that awaits the prime minister, but without him there is no report that will be made public.

• Several activists have called for an international investigation into the killing of some 72 protesters after the military seized power on October 25. In your opinion, how should this issue be dealt with?

Whoever calls for an international investigation must understand what he means by that, because it is a sentence that does not mean anything to those working in this field, and because the international investigation is divided into a fact-finding and criminal investigation, like what we in the committee do.

In connection with fact-finding; It is formed by an international body specialized in the facts that you want to reach, such as the Human Rights Council or the General Assembly of the United Nations. But a criminal investigation is required by international criminal courts represented by the International Criminal Court, or regional criminal courts of international character. And if they are talking about an investigation before the International Criminal Court, then this enters into the complications of the state that has the power to divert the matter.

In our view, the killing of demonstrators is included in the crimes that can be prosecuted in Sudan, such as extrajudicial killing, or crimes against humanity. And the demand for international commissions of inquiry now detracts from the sovereignty of the state.

Dozens of dead and hundreds wounded in ongoing demonstrations against the military rule in Sudan (Al-Jazeera)

• How do you view the statements of the judges and the Public Prosecution in protest against the killing in the demonstrations?

These positions give an indication that the judiciary is independent and can handle such cases, and that the Public Prosecution can take appropriate measures.

In any case, if there is any indication of obstruction by the authority or any police obstruction of the work of the Sudanese judicial authorities, there is scope for these procedures to be referred to the International Criminal Court.

• What is required now from the prosecution and the judiciary in light of the continuation of the killings?

The main thing that is required is for the families of the victims to open immediate and rapid criminal cases and complaints, such as investigating the killing of any person and opening a criminal report in his case immediately, and if any obstruction to the investigation appears, the case is transferred to the International Criminal Court because its jurisdiction is originally complementary, meaning that it does not have jurisdiction unless it is proven that The national judiciary is unwilling or unable to complete the required investigation.

For the burial of any person, a death certificate (burial permit) is required, and in the case of violent murder, a death certificate is not issued for him except by passing through the prosecutor, because he is the one who decides if the circumstances of death require opening a complaint and initiating criminal proceedings, but I held the responsibility of the families of the martyrs to do so. The state system does not allow a person to be killed without opening an investigation.

Fatou Bensouda, former prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, during her visit to Sudan last summer (communication sites)

• Currently, what is Sudan’s position vis-à-vis the International Criminal Court?

Sudan signed the Rome Statute, which is important for membership in the International Criminal Court, but did not ratify it, and the Juba Peace Agreement provided only for the extradition of the accused, and whether Sudan ratified or not, any investigation must be carried out by its will or by another member state.

The state’s ratification of the Rome Statute does not mean that any crime that occurs in the territory of Sudan is subject to the jurisdiction of the Criminal Court, but if it ratifies it, the investigation in any case shall not be transferred to the Public Prosecutor of the Criminal Court until after it has been proven that the national judiciary is unwilling or unable to take measures .

• But prosecutors of the International Criminal Court visited Sudan after the revolution, and the most recent of them was Karim Khan not long ago

When Khan came, he did not only talk about Sudan’s ratification, but he had defendants he wanted to extradite, and he submitted a report to the Security Council a few days ago saying that the Sudanese government is not cooperating, and he is talking about an issue he wants to complete.

• Does the resignation of the Prime Minister affect the relationship with the Criminal Court and its development?

I see no reason to delay or obstruct the handover of the accused. The authority in Sudan must hand over the wanted persons to the International Criminal Court.

• There is talk about the futility of returning to the constitutional document. Do you agree with this opinion? What is the legal definition of this issue?

It is necessary to return to the constitutional document; Because it is the constitution that prevailed on October 25, and because whoever carried out the procedures at that time did not have the right to amend or change the constitutional document.

We must return to the constitutional document first, so that it becomes the document governing the transitional period and Sudan at this stage, and what is outdated in it can be amended or some special conditions can be changed according to the constitutional document itself only.

• The demonstrators are currently unanimous in not returning to the constitutional document, and there are consultations with the head of the United Nations mission that may end in a new constitutional form. What is the legitimacy of the two views?

There is a difference between returning to the constitutional document and returning members of the Council of Ministers and the Sovereignty Council. Something can be reached with regard to the Council of Ministers and the Sovereignty in terms of making amendments and so on, but regardless of these demands, I do not think that there is room to amend the constitutional document by the will of the demonstrations, nor by the will of the military component or the will of the existing authority; The constitutional document is not amended except in accordance with its provisions.