(Trends Wide) — A key former White House official was interviewed earlier this year by special prosecutors investigating the handling of classified materials by former President Donald Trump and President Joe Biden, Trends Wide has learned.
The former career official, who was in charge of advising the Trump and Obama governments in the declassification process, is the only known witness who was interviewed by the two teams of prosecutors investigating Trump and Biden.
The former official told Trends Wide that, during those interviews that he gave voluntarily, there was a clear difference in the line of questioning by prosecutors in the two investigations.
While prosecutors in the Trump case aggressively targeted any firsthand interactions with the former president — including conversations about how to properly declassify documents — prosecutors in the Biden case were more concerned with the mechanics of packing and moving boxes around. Biden’s Delaware home as his time as vice president came to an end.
“I didn’t expect both investigations to be approached with the same intensity, and indeed they weren’t,” the former official said, comparing the interview he had with Biden investigators and discussions with prosecutors in the Trump investigation.
Speaking to Trends Wide on condition of anonymity, the former official said he told federal prosecutors that Trump knew the proper process for declassifying documents and that he followed that process correctly while in office.
The previously unreported interview with the former official is the latest indication that prosecutors are seeking evidence to suggest that Trump understood the document declassification process. That could undermine his claims that he automatically declassified everything he took with him to Mar-a-Lago.
The Justice Department recently informed Trump’s legal team that he is a target in the investigation of classified documents, sources familiar with the matter told Trends Wide, a sign that prosecutors may be close to indicting the former president.
“Get your declassification tools”
The former official described working with Trump and his top advisers to properly declassify certain documents, including a 2018 congressional memo related to the Russia investigation.
The former official reminded prosecutors how then-National Security Council attorney John Eisenberg met with Trump in the Oval Office to discuss declassifying the memo.
As he left the Oval Office, Eisenberg ordered the former official to “get your declassification tools.”
The former official then met with White House lawyers in a nearby office to handwrite the memo for declassification and publication, as directed by Eisenberg.
During the interview with prosecutors, the former official provided names of former Trump officials who spoke directly with the former president about the declassification process while he was in office. That includes Eisenberg, former White House counsel Don McGahn and John Kelly, former White House secretary general.
Eisenberg, who was listed as one of the few custodians of Trump’s presidential records at the time he left office, declined to comment when asked about his role in declassifying the 2018 memo and also did not respond when asked. if the special counsel team contacted you. McGahn did not respond to requests for comment.
The evidence that Trump understood the process
Trends Wide first reported last month that the National Archives was preparing to turn over to special counsel Jack Smith 16 additional records showing that Trump and his top advisers were aware of the proper declassification process while he was president. Last week, Trends Wide was also the first to report that federal prosecutors obtained an audio recording of Trump acknowledging that he had a classified Pentagon document on a possible attack on Iran.
It was only after obtaining the audio that prosecutors issued a subpoena for related materials. Sources previously told Trends Wide that Trump’s team returned some materials, but not the Iran-related document.
This image, part of a Department of Justice court filing on August 30, 2022, shows a photo of documents seized during the FBI’s August 8 search of former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago property. . (Credit: Department of Justice)
In the days after the FBI seized hundreds of top-secret and classified documents from Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort last August, Trump and his allies claimed the former president had a “standing order” to declassify the documents they contained. took from the Oval Office to the White House residence.
But 18 former top Trump officials told Trends Wide they never heard of such an order during their time with Trump, including Kelly, who spent 17 months as White House secretary general under Trump from 2017 to 2019.
“Nothing like such a silly order was ever given,” Kelly told Trends Wide. “And I can’t imagine anyone who has worked in the White House after me who would have simply shrugged and allowed the order to go forward without dying in a ditch trying to stop it.”
Earlier this year, Trump’s legal team told Congress that classified material was packaged without anyone noticing when the government ended. More recently, Trump told Trends Wide in a public forum that the materials were “automatically declassified” when he took them.
However, there is no indication that Trump followed the proper declassification process, and his lawyers have so far avoided saying in court whether Trump declassified the records he kept.
The testimony of former Trump officials
Prosecutors obtained grand jury testimony from several former top Trump officials who detailed conversations they had with the former president about the declassification process.
Mark Meadows, former White House general secretary, is among those who testified before a federal grand jury as part of special counsel Jack Smith’s investigation. He was asked about the former president’s handling of classified documents, a source familiar with the matter told Trends Wide on Wednesday.
Meadows was directly involved in the matter, helping Trump declassify additional documents related to the FBI’s investigation into Russia during his final days in office, making him seen as a key witness in the Smith investigation.
Appearing before the grand jury earlier this year, former Trump National Security Adviser Robert O’Brien discussed conversations he had with the former president related to the president’s authority to declassify documents while in office, according to a source. familiar with the matter.
O’Brien testified that during those conversations with Trump he made it clear to him that the president has the authority to declassify, but it only applies to the time that he’s in office, and even then there’s a procedure that they have to go through, said the source.
Trump’s former acting Director of National Intelligence Richard Grenell also appeared before the grand jury in April and was similarly questioned about conversations he had with the former president related to the declassification process, Trends Wide reported at the time. .
The state of the Biden investigation
Meanwhile, the Biden investigation is ongoing, but the special counsel overseeing it, Robert Hur, does not appear to be using a grand jury at this time, sources familiar with the matter told Trends Wide.
Hur is known to have approached only one witness, former Biden aide Kathy Chung. By comparison, Smith’s team has interviewed dozens of witnesses in its investigation into Trump and several have testified before grand juries as part of that investigation.
The investigation into former Vice President Mike Pence’s handling of classified documents was closed last Friday without a special prosecutor being named.
Trends Wide’s Pamela Brown and Jamie Gangel contributed to this report.
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(Trends Wide) — A key former White House official was interviewed earlier this year by special prosecutors investigating the handling of classified materials by former President Donald Trump and President Joe Biden, Trends Wide has learned.
The former career official, who was in charge of advising the Trump and Obama governments in the declassification process, is the only known witness who was interviewed by the two teams of prosecutors investigating Trump and Biden.
The former official told Trends Wide that, during those interviews that he gave voluntarily, there was a clear difference in the line of questioning by prosecutors in the two investigations.
While prosecutors in the Trump case aggressively targeted any firsthand interactions with the former president — including conversations about how to properly declassify documents — prosecutors in the Biden case were more concerned with the mechanics of packing and moving boxes around. Biden’s Delaware home as his time as vice president came to an end.
“I didn’t expect both investigations to be approached with the same intensity, and indeed they weren’t,” the former official said, comparing the interview he had with Biden investigators and discussions with prosecutors in the Trump investigation.
Speaking to Trends Wide on condition of anonymity, the former official said he told federal prosecutors that Trump knew the proper process for declassifying documents and that he followed that process correctly while in office.
The previously unreported interview with the former official is the latest indication that prosecutors are seeking evidence to suggest that Trump understood the document declassification process. That could undermine his claims that he automatically declassified everything he took with him to Mar-a-Lago.
The Justice Department recently informed Trump’s legal team that he is a target in the investigation of classified documents, sources familiar with the matter told Trends Wide, a sign that prosecutors may be close to indicting the former president.
“Get your declassification tools”
The former official described working with Trump and his top advisers to properly declassify certain documents, including a 2018 congressional memo related to the Russia investigation.
The former official reminded prosecutors how then-National Security Council attorney John Eisenberg met with Trump in the Oval Office to discuss declassifying the memo.
As he left the Oval Office, Eisenberg ordered the former official to “get your declassification tools.”
The former official then met with White House lawyers in a nearby office to handwrite the memo for declassification and publication, as directed by Eisenberg.
During the interview with prosecutors, the former official provided names of former Trump officials who spoke directly with the former president about the declassification process while he was in office. That includes Eisenberg, former White House counsel Don McGahn and John Kelly, former White House secretary general.
Eisenberg, who was listed as one of the few custodians of Trump’s presidential records at the time he left office, declined to comment when asked about his role in declassifying the 2018 memo and also did not respond when asked. if the special counsel team contacted you. McGahn did not respond to requests for comment.
The evidence that Trump understood the process
Trends Wide first reported last month that the National Archives was preparing to turn over to special counsel Jack Smith 16 additional records showing that Trump and his top advisers were aware of the proper declassification process while he was president. Last week, Trends Wide was also the first to report that federal prosecutors obtained an audio recording of Trump acknowledging that he had a classified Pentagon document on a possible attack on Iran.
It was only after obtaining the audio that prosecutors issued a subpoena for related materials. Sources previously told Trends Wide that Trump’s team returned some materials, but not the Iran-related document.
This image, part of a Department of Justice court filing on August 30, 2022, shows a photo of documents seized during the FBI’s August 8 search of former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago property. . (Credit: Department of Justice)
In the days after the FBI seized hundreds of top-secret and classified documents from Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort last August, Trump and his allies claimed the former president had a “standing order” to declassify the documents they contained. took from the Oval Office to the White House residence.
But 18 former top Trump officials told Trends Wide they never heard of such an order during their time with Trump, including Kelly, who spent 17 months as White House secretary general under Trump from 2017 to 2019.
“Nothing like such a silly order was ever given,” Kelly told Trends Wide. “And I can’t imagine anyone who has worked in the White House after me who would have simply shrugged and allowed the order to go forward without dying in a ditch trying to stop it.”
Earlier this year, Trump’s legal team told Congress that classified material was packaged without anyone noticing when the government ended. More recently, Trump told Trends Wide in a public forum that the materials were “automatically declassified” when he took them.
However, there is no indication that Trump followed the proper declassification process, and his lawyers have so far avoided saying in court whether Trump declassified the records he kept.
The testimony of former Trump officials
Prosecutors obtained grand jury testimony from several former top Trump officials who detailed conversations they had with the former president about the declassification process.
Mark Meadows, former White House general secretary, is among those who testified before a federal grand jury as part of special counsel Jack Smith’s investigation. He was asked about the former president’s handling of classified documents, a source familiar with the matter told Trends Wide on Wednesday.
Meadows was directly involved in the matter, helping Trump declassify additional documents related to the FBI’s investigation into Russia during his final days in office, making him seen as a key witness in the Smith investigation.
Appearing before the grand jury earlier this year, former Trump National Security Adviser Robert O’Brien discussed conversations he had with the former president related to the president’s authority to declassify documents while in office, according to a source. familiar with the matter.
O’Brien testified that during those conversations with Trump he made it clear to him that the president has the authority to declassify, but it only applies to the time that he’s in office, and even then there’s a procedure that they have to go through, said the source.
Trump’s former acting Director of National Intelligence Richard Grenell also appeared before the grand jury in April and was similarly questioned about conversations he had with the former president related to the declassification process, Trends Wide reported at the time. .
The state of the Biden investigation
Meanwhile, the Biden investigation is ongoing, but the special counsel overseeing it, Robert Hur, does not appear to be using a grand jury at this time, sources familiar with the matter told Trends Wide.
Hur is known to have approached only one witness, former Biden aide Kathy Chung. By comparison, Smith’s team has interviewed dozens of witnesses in its investigation into Trump and several have testified before grand juries as part of that investigation.
The investigation into former Vice President Mike Pence’s handling of classified documents was closed last Friday without a special prosecutor being named.
Trends Wide’s Pamela Brown and Jamie Gangel contributed to this report.
